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View Full Version : Newark should SELL Ivy Hill Park to SHU


5Reasons
12-09-2004, 10:35 AM
The park is NOT used; SHU needs the location and would probably cough up to as much as 50 MILLION dollars for it. Newark could take the 50 MILLION into an interest bearing account and generate $250,000 per year and fund nearly at least SIX youth recreational sports LEAGUES. Everyone goes home a winner and Newark can use NPS facilities to house their recreational efforts - - especially youth/sports skill development programs.

Doofus1
12-09-2004, 11:48 AM
I'm for it. As an SHU alumni, I would donate to capital fund for that purpose. But remember, SHU is notoriously cheap.

ProSouth
12-09-2004, 12:18 PM
I'm down for anything that would bring back real recreation to the city.

J. Sharpe James, J.D.
12-09-2004, 12:55 PM
I wish folks would do some small research before they jump into ideas.

JoefromPGH
12-09-2004, 01:36 PM
The park is NOT used; SHU needs the location and would probably cough up to as much as 50 MILLION dollars for it. Newark could take the 50 MILLION into an interest bearing account and generate $250,000 per year and fund nearly at least SIX youth recreational sports LEAGUES. Everyone goes home a winner and Newark can use NPS facilities to house their recreational efforts - - especially youth/sports skill development programs.


I think you are missing a "zero" up there. By mid-2005, there should be no reason why the city could not earn 5% on that money, especially if its set aside as capital and invested in longer-term instruments (1-10 years). However, $50 million is a lot of money; I'm not sure SHU would even consider anywhere near that outlay.

Terms aside...its a wonderful idea. The city NEEDS to get back into keeping youth busy with things other than crime. We once had an excellent recreational program in the city. We need to get it back and if its at the cost of a park that isn't used...well than, thats not a bad price to pay to get it back.

5Reasons
12-09-2004, 01:36 PM
John,

I would assume that if a proposal like that was put forth, it would be thoroughly researched. The question is this - How many people use that park on a yearly basis and what is that value? Now I live in the area, and it is RARELY used at ALL TIMES of the year. Like most parks in black neighborhoods, they are just taking up space. So then the question becomes this - Can Newark profit more by using the interest from what the sale of that kind of park could produce? If Nwk could generate $250G from the sale of that park and put it INTO recreation (since I assume that many would be decrying the loss of recreational facilities) you could produce more than 5,000 contacts and run about 6 leagues in various sports with that revenue. It wouldn't add ANYTHING to Newark's tax burden and SHU would, obviously, use that space in a more effecient/intensive way. Also, you might even be able to get a little tax revenue from it (very little).

Now I'm surprised that you would show so much concern for parks, considering your dads prior proposals to off the parks in other development projects. I don't care about parks, either way. And in that area, the park is doing nothing.

JoefromPGH
12-09-2004, 01:42 PM
I wish folks would do some small research before they jump into ideas.


I guess I responded too soon. I do find it interesting that Ivy Hill Park is county property but in that case, a good idea is ended....

UNLESS ----

the city can convince the county to sell the property and dedicate the annual income toward recreational programs for youth in (well I guess it will have to be) the poorest cities, which would include Newark, East Orange, Irvington and Orange. Hey, whats wrong with that?

5Reasons
12-09-2004, 01:47 PM
Joe,

If Newark requested, they would be more than willing to off load the park. Do you realize how much Essex County pays for the upkeep? That mob-uped union (or, at least I think it is mob-uped) that runs the parks gets P.A.I.D to pick up trash and mow the lawn.

Miss Tam-Tam
12-09-2004, 01:49 PM
I guess I responded too soon. I do find it interesting that Ivy Hill Park is county property but in that case, a good idea is ended....
UNLESS ----
the city can convince the county to sell the property and dedicate the annual income toward recreational programs for youth in (well I guess it will have to be) the poorest cities, which would include Newark, East Orange, Irvington and Orange. Hey, whats wrong with that?

You are correct! Ivy Hill Park is a county-"owned" park. There may be some complications involved in the "selling" or transfer of property that has probably been funded with Green Acres money. I'm certain someone in the know on this forum will add further insight.

5Reasons
12-09-2004, 01:54 PM
John,

The County has pitched several ideas over the last decade to turn the parks over to local control. Essex County is BROKE and it needs to off load its expenses. SHU would be a better fit for that park. You would ONLY NEED THE CONSENT of the County Freeloaders and the Newark Municipal Council. And again, the maintenance costs for that park are probably far higher than its usage-rate would warrant.

JoefromPGH
12-09-2004, 01:56 PM
Joe,
If Newark requested, they would be more than willing to off load the park. Do you realize how much Essex County pays for the upkeep? That mob-uped union (or, at least I think it is mob-uped) that runs the parks gets P.A.I.D to pick up trash and mow the lawn.

5 Reasons:

You just took the words right out of my mouth...the upkeep has to cost a bundle. Why don't you take this further...it deserves more than just being a forum idea. Re-opening the school playgrounds and creating recreational leagues almost gives me the goosies. It is what I had when I grew up. The kids today deserve at least the same!

J. Sharpe James, J.D.
12-09-2004, 03:06 PM
John,

I would assume that if a proposal like that was put forth, it would be thoroughly researched. The question is this - How many people use that park on a yearly basis and what is that value? Now I live in the area, and it is RARELY used at ALL TIMES of the year. Like most parks in black neighborhoods, they are just taking up space. So then the question becomes this - Can Newark profit more by using the interest from what the sale of that kind of park could produce? If Nwk could generate $250G from the sale of that park and put it INTO recreation (since I assume that many would be decrying the loss of recreational facilities) you could produce more than 5,000 contacts and run about 6 leagues in various sports with that revenue. It wouldn't add ANYTHING to Newark's tax burden and SHU would, obviously, use that space in a more effecient/intensive way. Also, you might even be able to get a little tax revenue from it (very little).

Now I'm surprised that you would show so much concern for parks, considering your dads prior proposals to off the parks in other development projects. I don't care about parks, either way. And in that area, the park is doing nothing.


How can the city negotiate a sale of land IT DOES NOT OWN?

5Reasons
12-09-2004, 04:47 PM
John,

Go ask your dad and he'll give you the answer. You know as well as I do that Essex would be more than happy to off load that park. It is not cost-effecient and it serves very few in the community.

In fact, at one point, your dad hatched a plan to off load a park in the East Ward. Ask him how he was going to get around that little logistical fact that the county controls it.

For a park that serves NO PURPOSE, it would be far better used by SHU - provided they coughed up the money. Newark has to begin to think progressively.

J. Sharpe James, J.D.
12-09-2004, 06:40 PM
So is the small park next to penn station.

Newark also owns Military park and Lincoln park.

Since I work for the county, you should know that Joe D LOVES parks and will NEVER give up a park for Newark's gain.

Lastly, if you have been by the park lately, Joe D has already created three new baseball diamonds, along with an agreement for Seton hall's use as long as they sponsor a local little league or high school team. Have you been their lately?

you are dead wrong on the park ownership issue. I'll admit when I am wrong. Do your research and get back to me. I'll wait for the apology.

Portugalian
12-13-2004, 12:28 AM
I don't beleive Newark should be selling itself off to get rid of it's debt. We need to keep our parks..if they aren't being used then find something to do with them..

black4rob2
12-13-2004, 11:07 AM
The park is NOT used; SHU needs the location and would probably cough up to as much as 50 MILLION dollars for it. Newark could take the 50 MILLION into an interest bearing account and generate $250,000 per year and fund nearly at least SIX youth recreational sports LEAGUES. Everyone goes home a winner and Newark can use NPS facilities to house their recreational efforts - - especially youth/sports skill development programs.

Did SHU express any recent interest in the park? How do we know that they are indeed interested????

Just for everyone's info...here is the list of all parks owns by Essex County:

PARK ACREAGE LOCATION

Anderson 14.85 Belleville Ave. & N. Mountain Ave., Montclair
Becker 147 Roseland
Belleville 32.70 Belleville Ave., Belleville
Branch Brook 359.72 Park Ave. & Lake St., Newark
Brookdale 121.41 Watchung Ave., Bloomfield; Grove St., Montclair
Eagle Rock
Reservation 408.33 Prospect Ave. & Eagle Rock Ave., West Orange
Francis A. Byrne
Golf Course 167.71 Pleasant Valley Way & Mt. Pleasant Ave., West Orange
Glenfield 20.01 Bloomfield Ave. & Maple Ave., Montclair
Grover
Cleveland 41.61 Brookside Ave. & Runnymede Rd., Essex Fells
Hendricks Field
Golf Course 124.99 Franklin Ave. & Belleville Ave., Belleville
Independence 12.69 Van Buren St. & Walnut St., Newark
lrvington 24.38 Grove St. & Lyons Ave., Irvington
lvy Hill 19.96 Mt. Vernon Pl. & Seton Hall University, Newark
Mills Reservation 157.19 Normal Ave. & Reservoir Dr., Cedar Grove
Orange 47.63 Center St. & Harrison St., Orange
Riker Hill Art Park 204.68 Beaufort Ave., Livingston
Riverbank 10.77 Market St. & Van Buren St., Newark
South Mountain Reservation 2047.14 So. Orange Ave. & Cherry Lane, West Orange
Vailsburg 30.32 So. Orange Ave. & Oraton Pkwy., Newark
Verona 54.32 Bloomfield Ave. & Lakeside Ave., Verona
Walter Kidde Dinosaur 16 Livingston, Roseland
Watsessing 69.67 Bloomfield Ave. & Conger St., Bloomfield
Weequahic 311.33 Elizabeth Ave. & Meeker Ave., Newark
West Essex 1361.33 Eagle Rock Ave., & Passaic River
West Essex Trail 23.35 Fairview Ave., near Verona High School, Verona
West Side 31.36 So. 13th St. & 18th Ave., Newark
Yanticaw 28.75 Centre St. & Park Dr., Nutley

myhomenewark
12-13-2004, 11:10 AM
If I recall correctly Newark has one of the lowest parkland to resident ratios in the whole country. Newark needs more attractive parks not less. Why not aggressively seek out private donations to improve neighborhood recreation services? Selling parkland is a drastic step.

black4rob2
12-13-2004, 11:12 AM
As of 1986 The county and Shu entered a 25-year no costlease for about 1-acre of university property, with that piece...they built additional tennis courts to bring the number to 10.

As part of the deal with the county, . the County rehabilitated the tennis courts and allows Seton Hall University use of the park's facilities.

Just some quick info....If I'm not mistaken...I think that Newark at one time owned the park...

5Reasons
12-13-2004, 02:11 PM
The park ratio to population is ONLY ONE MEASURE. And as I've stated before -- the ratio of park space to person HAS IMPROVED under Sharpe James. Remember, the amount of park space has remained stable; the amount of people in Newark has DECLINED by over 30% in the last 2 decades. Ergo, the ratio has improved.

Now the real measure is the utilization variables in parks. If these parks had heavy traffic, we wouldn't even be debating this issue. The facts are that in perdominantly black neighborhoods that parks aren't being used. You would be better off opening a gym into the evenings at NPS (say to 8pm). You would probably get better turnout for that. Forgive me but black Newarkers aren't going out to roll in the grass.

Again, the whole point of the sale of the park was that SHU needs the space more and they would PAY for it (Trust me - I KNOW they are desperate). You could take that money and FULLY FUND MULTIPLE SPORTS LEAGUES. In other words, you would off loading an expensive resource (since the county probably is paying about $150,000 per year just to keep up to snuff (that's probably a low ball estimate) and you could critically address Newark's lack of recreation venues.

Note: I think we have probably exhausted this thread, since it is unlikely to change ownership. I was, however, trying to get people to think outside of the box on this issue and to look for unique ways to generate revenue and solve multiple problems with innovative solutions.