How many more people will Officer Thomas Ruane shoot and kill?

[5Reasons]

Well, I see a lot of lurkers but not much discussion. So, what's your opinion of a guy that has shot 3 PEOPLE in less than 3 years? Anyone that has to use their gun that often is either using bad tactics, is a bit itchy on the trigger or is the most unluckiest cop on the force. I'm surprised at how quiet everyone is - people can accept policing IF cops are honest when there is BAD policing. The evidence is overwhelming Tommy Boy needs a new job; he!! he's shot and killed so many Newarkers that for his own safety he needs to get out of the department.

Since he shot and killed multiple Newarkers, perhaps he can run for Councilman of the East Ward. They like electing killer cops.

[LastCubanStanding]

I guess found justified. Maybe he is an agressive cop, intead of a sit-on-your a$$ cop. If the previous investigations were found justified, what do you suggest be done?

[5Reasons]

I assume there was some psch eval done that cleared him to go back out there. But 3 shootings from the same cop in less than 3 years, when the average cop NEVER pulls his gun, is unacceptable. And let's be clear - if you look at the original wording of the Fox Ledger, they sort of hinted that perhaps something isn't passing the *smell* test.

And again, the fact that the guy could shoot two people and STILL be allowed on the street to shoot a 3rd, says something about the NPD and its procedures. Let's hope that there is at least a minimally justifiable reason for this guy's actions, otherwise Newark could be on the hook for millions of dollars in a lawsuit.

And if for some reason everything is "justified", I would STILL remove him from the force. This guy doesn't belong anywhere near a gun and Newark's streets.

I am very interested in seeing how this issue is handled by the administration.

[J. Sharpe James, J.D.]

You can't have it both ways!

When a citizen is shot and killed by criminals, we blame the COPS/Mayor not the criminals.

When a cop kills a criminal, we blame the COPS/Mayor AGAIN?

YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!

There will be an investigation...If the cop was wrong then he should be disciplined/fired, but to blame a cop for shooting three people (2 died) who did criminal acts in Newark is ridiculous when folks rant that "Crime is Rampant...We need a new Mayor/Council"

Cops have guns NOT only for personal safety, but also to COMBAT criminals and uphold the law.

If you don't want cops to shoot people then don't give them guns....and then tell me when was the last time YOU heard of an unarmed security guard (Which is what the cops would be reduced to) thwarting crime or stepping into a criminal situation.

My question.....WHEN DO WE BLAME INDIVIDUALS FOR THEIR CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR? OR DO WE PLAY POLITICS AND CONTINUALLY BLAME MAYOR/COUNCIL/SCHOOL SYSTEM?

No matter who is elected Mayor or council, THE SAME COPS WORK FOR THE CITY DAY IN AND DAY OUT. NO COP HAS BEEN FIRED DUE TO AN ELECTION (They may get transferred to unappealing posts)

[5Reasons]

My, my, are you shilling for Officer Tom already? The guy used his gun 3 TIMES in less than 3 years. Unless he's on some "forward unit" task force, then that is not by random chance. Yes, I want cops to protect themselves, but are you seriously willing to let him go BACK OUT on the streets to shoot and kill a 3rd person? Criminals BELONG in jail. We have a judicial process to put them there. Cops SHOULD protect themselves, but when a cop has to use his gun, there's clearly a warning sign going up.

Now you've seen enough of my posts to know that I'm not one to bleed for criminals. But I'm also not one to throw away the Constitution and other notions like due process and appropriate use of force. Two dead and another shot in less than 3 years seems like a bit much to me.

But again, if it's justified, we'll soon know. I want to know what Tommy's file looks like. Have there been any "observations" of his behavior? I would think that he might have some *indicators* in his file by now to suggest that perhaps the guy doesn't belong on the street.

[LastCubanStanding]

That this guy may actually go out and LOOK for criminals and that's why he puts himself in these situations. I'd like to know how many arrests this guy has, how many convictions, and comapre that to the rest of the force.

I agree with everything John said...

plus...how about giving this guy the benefit of the doubt?

[5Reasons]

He's getting the "benefit of the doubt." In fact, have you ever known for a cop to NOT get the "benefit of the doubt"? I have little doubt that the blue wall of silence shall prevail once again.


(It is interesting that on this issue, that has quasi-racial overtones, that you find the time to participate/post. In all of my other posts during the past week, you had nothing to say. Any theories on why that is so?) :rolleyes:

[LastCubanStanding]

I have no clue of the race of the officer OR the victims. Are you going to make this a racial issue now?

(It is interesting that on this issue, that has quasi-racial overtones, that you find the time to participate/post. In all of my other posts during the past week, you had nothing to say. Any theories on why that is so?)

We spoke about your redevelopment plan, which I'm still waiting for.

[ProSouth]

The problem with the police officer using his weapon 3 times in less than 3 years is very apparent. He is either a punk ass cop or he is a racist, either way he does not not need to be on the force. I'd love to know first what units/divisions he's worked in the last 3 years. Cops in highly dangerous and confrontational units/divisions and task forces like narcotics, major crimes, auto theft, ect. don't have such a high percentage of use of deadly force. Also let's understand that in instances like these Newark IAD and the ECPO will always protect and investigate the illegal use of deadly force by police officers giving the officer the edge. The difference with these situations is the COPS LIE and other cops help them LIE. And then the COPS who investigate the shooting also LIE. And then the investigators at the ECPO who are also COPS, help to create and formulate an investigation that upholds the lie told by the COP. In Newark this is the norm. Cops stick together here like crazy glue. Also, there are many judges who are pro-police. Getting a conviction from them against the police is damn near impossible without overwhelming evidence. This is just a fact.

[ProSouth]

I bet you anything (without even seeing the reports) that 2 things are absolute in this case. (1) That this cop said that he was in fear of his life because he thought the car was going to kill him. I said it a long time ago on the other forum, cops stand in front of a vehicle they want to fire upon and make a claim of self defense as a reason for using deadly force. I guarantee you that he was "told" what happened by some SGT., LT. or Capt.. The report was written to protect the officer criminally. The key words in the report must be "Fear for Life". (2) I also guarantee you that there was NO video record of the incident. This is why Sharpe needs to install video cameras in all police vehicles that patrol the streets, marked and un-marked. That won't happen though because bad cops in Newark do not want their nasty attitudes and corrupt actions to be recorded.
The negative behavior of the police is only going to make the criminal element more deadly. Why give up when you know the cop is going to shoot you and you might end up dead? Better yet, why not just shoot the cop first before he gets a chance to shoot/kill you? This is the f-up mentality of these ignorant criminals. The police underestimate the survival mode of these criminals.
I say do it by the book or don't do it at all.

[LastCubanStanding]

punk ass or racist? (what a surprise we're heading down this street)

should get a medal for taking two pieces of crap off the streets.

BTW, get the story straight. The perp was stuck in a snow bank and he was backing up. if the cop would not ahve acted, he would have run over the other cop AND the other perp who were wrestling around on the ground BEHIND the car.

let's not forget that the whole thing started with the ramming of the RMP by the perps.

So if he wasn't stopped, would the headline be "Newark cops failure to act leads to death of cop and suspect?

[jazzyken]

Cuban, where does it say that the other officer and criminal was "behind" the car? They were on the passenger side wrestling for the gun. What boggles my mind is why was the officer worried about the criminal in the car as oppose to the criminal wrestling his partner???

[LastCubanStanding]

Meanwhile, the driver was still trying to dislodge the car from the snowbank and drive away, McClendon said. Popolizio was dragged along with the car, prompting Ruane to fire several shots at the driver, fatally wounding him.

[black4rob2]

I still don't understand why they had to shoot just yet. He could have easily gotten to the side of the window and pointed his gun at the driver and yell for him to stop. Now in this situation if the driver pulls out a gun...blast his ass...

Besides the point....I've always pride myself of being non-bias in any situation. here are my thoughts..

3 SHOOTINGS IN LESS THAN 3 YEARS:

I don't think the officer should face in charges criminally if all the shootings was justified. But given that he has shot his piece in at least three different incidents...it is hard for me to believe that he will not be in constant fear for his life even if there isn't an apparent threat.
This man has been in three situations were he feared for his life...and you think that he is thinking clearly....I doubt it....

In that situation, NPD should at least give him some desk duties until he can reclaim his mind....

If all the reports we are reading is true....then it is my opinion that it should have played out like that....

[jazzyken]

My point Cuban is that he would not have been dragged by the car if he was not NEAR the car! He should have not been worried about the driver escaping... he should have been worried about his fellow officer that needed his assistance. A criminal trying to take an officer's guns seems to be more dangerous than a criminal pulling out of the snow bed. If he would have shot and killed the criminal trying to get the gun I would have felt a little better about the incident but he did not. He felt the criminal trying to pull his car out of the snow took priority. Just my thought.

[LastCubanStanding]

please re-read the story again...carfefully

Ruane shot the driver when he was dragging Poplizio (sp), who was fighting with the other suspect.


Popolizio, while struggling with the suspect, shot him in the leg, McClendon said.

Meanwhile, the driver was still trying to dislodge the car from the snowbank and drive away, McClendon said. Popolizio was dragged along with the car, prompting Ruane to fire several shots at the driver, fatally wounding him.

[ProSouth]

LastCuban:

How many police reports have you read?? Let me explain something to you, the police spokesman was making a public statement to the press based upon the filed police report of BOTH officers. Let's read the article very carefully and then lets ask a few very important questions:

Newark police officers shot and killed a motorist and injured a passenger early yesterday after the driver allegedly rammed their patrol car head-on and led them on a brief chase.

Officers Thomas Ruane and Pasquale Popolizio were patrolling the city's border with Irvington about 12:30 a.m. when their marked cruiser was struck by a 1997 Pontiac Grand Prix at 18th Avenue and South 13th Street, said detective Todd McClendon, a police spokesman. This incident took place Sunday Night at 12:30 am (right after midnight early Monday morning). The weather conditions were horrendous. Remember, this was hours after a Blizzard. There was snow everywhere, freezing conditions of temperatures in the single digits. To be more exact we had 8.9 inches of snow on Saturday and 4.5" on Sunday. The temperature at the time of this incident was 7 degrees without including the wind chill factor which brought the temperature below zero. The roads were so dangerous that there was a State of Emergency put into effect. Meaning nothing but essencial police, fire and medical vehicles were suppose to be on the roads. The roads were very slippery and covered with ice and snow. My point: Their vehicle could have struck the cruiser by accident. Let's understand that at this point this is nothing but a motor vehicle accident. Drivers in horrendous weather conditions hit parked cars and other vehicles all the time.


The Pontiac sped off, and the officers pursued. At Springfield Avenue and South 14th Street, the Pontiac lost control and got stuck in a snowbank, McClendon said. O.K., now if it happened the way the cops say it did, at this point it is only a hit and run with no injuries, again under terrible road conditions. After running, the vehicle probably lost control due to the road conditions and the type of vehicle (rear wheel drive, fast car). Let's remember, the car got STUCK in a snowbank.



The two officers got out of the police cruiser and approached the car, Ruane making his way to the driver's side and Popolizio to the passenger's side. When Popolizio ordered the passenger out of the vehicle, the passenger got out of the car and attempted to take away the officer's gun, McClendon said. This in my opinion is where the BS story begins. The rubber stamping of similar very familiar statements. I challenge everyone to look at similar accounts of police shootings. Many speak of the officer's struggle to keep his gun. Why? Because this is another justifiable reason to shoot someone. He was afraid of the guy getting his gun and shooting him with it. I've heard and read this a million times. My question is where was the officer standing between the time he ordering the passenger out of the vehicle and the passenger getting out of the car. Did the officer grab the guy when he exited the vehicle? Was the officers gun drawn, holstered, pointing at the guy getting out of the car, what????

Popolizio, while struggling with the suspect, shot him in the leg, McClendon said. Meanwhile, the driver was still trying to dislodge the car from the snowbank and drive away, McClendon said. This is interesting. Question..... If the driver was trying to dislodge the car from the snow and drive away, why not just let him. At this point this was nothing more than a motor vehicle infraction. Run the plate and get him later under better conditions.

Popolizio was dragged along with the car, prompting Ruane to fire several shots at the driver, fatally wounding him. Surprise, Surprise, how did Popolizio get so close to the car to get dragged?? Either he approached this traffic offense like some tough guy and attempted to yank the passenger out of the car or he knew these guys were not a threat from the beginning. How would he be so close to the vehicle with his gun drawn? Todd's statement never said whether or not the officers guns were drawn when they approached the vehicle. If his gun was holstered, still how did he get so close to the vehicle to allow unknown "criminals" to just exit a vehicle without having his weapon drawn? They could have had maching guns in that car. In either case the occupants should never have been close enough to the officers to ever physically come into contact with the officers.

The passenger, later identified as Richard Guy, 26, of Newark, was taken to University Hospital, where he was treated and released before being arrested on charges of disarming of a police officer, hindering apprehension and resisting arrest. Guy also was held on three open bench warrants. Police said Guy has seven felony convictions, most of them drug-related.

The dead driver was identified by police late yesterday as 26-year-old Rasheed Fuquan Moore of Newark.

The shooting is now under investigation by the Newark Police Department's Internal Affairs Division and the Essex County Prosecutor's Office's homicide squad. Ruane, a four-year veteran of the force, and Popolizio, a seven-year veteran, both suffered minor injuries during the confrontation. Both will be placed on desk duty according to department guidelines, police said.

Ruane and Popolizio also were involved with a fatal shooting nearly two years ago that sparked days of protests by city residents. On July 30, 2003, the two officers were among several city cops who responded to complaints of noise and public drinking at a barbecue in a parking lot of the Oriental Village townhouses between Broadway and North Broad Street.

According to police, the officers arrived to find 20-year-old Michael Newkirk walking toward them with a gun in his hand. Ruane and Popolizio ordered Newkirk to drop the weapon, but instead he pointed it at Ruane, police said at the time.

Ruane fired a single shot that struck Newkirk in the head, authorities said.

For days afterward, residents and Newkirk's relatives protested the circumstances of the shooting. They maintained that Newkirk had been unarmed. But Newark Police Lt. Derek Glenn said yesterday that authorities concluded the shooting was justified.

Popolizio did not fire a shot in the Newkirk incident. But he has discharged his service weapon once before -- on July 5, 2004, at a motorist who pointed his gun at police and sped away, Glenn said. The shot missed, and the suspect was not caught. LMAO....He shot at a fleeing vehicle and they never caught the person who supposedly pointed the gun at them. Why didn't all the cops on the scene open fire on the vehicle, maybe because shooting at a fleeing vehicle is very dangerous to innocent people and also under most conditions illegal and against the state Attorney General's Guidelines.

Police Director Anthony Ambrose called yesterday's shooting "unfortunate and traumatic." He added, "The investigators will closely scrutinize the officers' actions to ensure that the officers were in compliance with the attorney general's guidelines governing the use of force, as well as departmental rules and regulations governing the actions of all police officers."

As is the case with all shootings involving police, yesterday's incident will ultimately be presented to a state grand jury for review, Ambrosia said.



Police Chief Irving Bradley said both officers were "visibly shaken and traumatized," but were expected to fully recover. "We are fortunate that their injuries were not more serious," Bradley said.



Police said they are urging anyone who may have witnessed any part of the incident to call the Newark Police Department's Internal Affairs Hotline at 1-888-NWK-IAD1 (1-888-695-4231).
Don't hold your breath.

[LastCubanStanding]

I just don't know what to say. How about this for a conspiracy theory:

Someone acted stupid, and a cop acted heroically and saved his and his partner's life. How about giving that a try. Do you think a cop would jeapordize his career for some thug?

You weren't there. You don't know anybody involved. Why are you so intent in proving that the cops were wrong?

No wonder NPD cops don't give a sh&t about Newark. With no support from the community, why should they?

[jazzyken]

Pro... great insight and note that I have read my fair share of reports that are full of BS!

[ProSouth]

LastCuban:
See this is why I have no respect for your posts. They contain no trace of justice or equality. Why are you always an apologist for so-called professional police officers? Maybe you have never known corrupt police officers....I have. From the tone of your post I can tell that you are going to begin to be disingenuos. Tell me LastCuban, could the officers have apprehended the so-called suspects from a distance far enough away to where they could have not made physical contact with the occupants of the car??? Another question, was this a felony vehicle at the time it was pursued by the officers? Did their pursuit of the vehicle justify the outcome? If the car was leaving after hitting the police car where was the danger to the police officers? You and I LastCuban/Burgman have had this discussion in the past. You are pro-police, I am pro-justice. You think the police can do no wrong, I say that bad police do wrong things all the time.

And to answer your question as to "Do you think a cop would jeapordize his career for some thug?" my answer is hell yea. The same way bad cops have jeapordized their careers and freedom with plungers in rectums, robbing drug dealers, stealing money, beating their wives, falsifying reports, committing perjury, witness tampering, ect, ect. You asked a very dumb question.

By the way, did you read this article:
http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jersey/index.ssf?/base/news-8/1107068275324480.xml

[LastCubanStanding]

any inquiry is welcome.....If they find the cops guilty of wrong-doing , I'll be the first one to call for their hanging. But until then, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

OK, so you've questioned the validity of the report. Where do we go from here? If the cops have lied, there is no one to refute their report because one suspect is dead, and they are not going to believe the other, whatever he says, and I don't believe there are any witnesses (at least none are mentioned).

So what happens now? You believe the cops in this case over reacted, and I will give them the benefit of the doubt until more evidence is shown.

BTW, I guess you haven't read my posts. Calling me pro-cop is a stretch. But given the choiec to believe a thug or a cop, I'll choose cop until the eveidence sways me to choose the other way.

We agree to disagree. Have a good night.

[ProSouth]

When did these "suspects" become thugs, before or after they got shot??

[LastCubanStanding]

I'll comment when the official report (and any independant report) is issued. Give it a rest.

[ProSouth]

LMAO... I don't particularly care whether you reply or not, just wanted to point out that you now want to wait for the official report. You did not want to wait 5 posts ago. I swear you remind me of a spoiled brat. LMAO. For the record Newark would do better without these punk ass cops. I know, let's send them to the town you live in. LMAO.

[5Reasons]

I think your analysis is right on. And don't bother with Cuban, it is pretty clear what his purpose is on this forum. :rolleyes:

Those that know policing, know what's up. When you shoot 3 people in 3 years, it is time for that officer to get a new profession. And again, for Newark's sake, let's hope they have a minimally justifiable reason for that shooting because the lasuits are coming.

Hey Black4Rob,

Officer Tom will never be right again - assuming he was "right" after the first shooting. NPD officers should show some courage and get rid of this guy, one way or the other.

[JoefromPGH]

You can't have it both ways!

When a citizen is shot and killed by criminals, we blame the COPS/Mayor not the criminals.

When a cop kills a criminal, we blame the COPS/Mayor AGAIN?

YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!

There will be an investigation...If the cop was wrong then he should be disciplined/fired, but to blame a cop for shooting three people (2 died) who did criminal acts in Newark is ridiculous when folks rant that "Crime is Rampant...We need a new Mayor/Council"

Cops have guns NOT only for personal safety, but also to COMBAT criminals and uphold the law.

If you don't want cops to shoot people then don't give them guns....and then tell me when was the last time YOU heard of an unarmed security guard (Which is what the cops would be reduced to) thwarting crime or stepping into a criminal situation.

My question.....WHEN DO WE BLAME INDIVIDUALS FOR THEIR CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR? OR DO WE PLAY POLITICS AND CONTINUALLY BLAME MAYOR/COUNCIL/SCHOOL SYSTEM?

No matter who is elected Mayor or council, THE SAME COPS WORK FOR THE CITY DAY IN AND DAY OUT. NO COP HAS BEEN FIRED DUE TO AN ELECTION (They may get transferred to unappealing posts)

I agree with John.

We've got to put at least a little faith and trust in the investigation(s). As long as Ruane faced imminent danger from a criminal, than he was justified. If not, than he should be let go and charged, if approriate. Politics should have no bearing on this. In this day and age of crime, where criminals have very little regard for life or the law, sometimes it becomes a choice...do we want the criminal to shoot the officer or do we want the officer to shoot the criminal? I don't know the facts surrounding Ruane's shooting instances but again, we have to put some credence in the results of the investigation.

BTW: That name sounds real familiar; has Ruane been on the force for a long time?

[JoefromPGH]

Pro,

I understand your concerns. The Newark police have had a poor history of being "just-handed." There has been an awful lot of brutality. But as citizens, we can continue to demand that the force does all it can to keep the streets free from crime, without weilding a stick that touches the innocent. The city needs the police. The city is at a crossroads right now. The criminals here are like the terrorists in Iraq..... a few bad are making it bad for the majority that are good. We cry out for the Administration to control crime. The police are there to fight crime. They are far from perfect but nevertheless, they must be allowed to do their job and if incidents happen, we just have to hope that there is not an "old boys club" within the force that will exonerate wrongful acts.

Joe

[5Reasons]

I don't think I've ever disagreed with you on an issue, but there's always a first for everything.

This cop is not getting into these shootings by random chance. There's something that he's doing, that others aren't, that has caused him to use deadly force on 3 different occassions. And again, that means that one of three things are happening.

1. He's using bad tactics. A good officer goes out to get the bad guys and NOT get into any situation that threatens his life.

2. He has an itchy trigger finger.

3. He's just unlucky.

Either way, do you think it is responsible for NPD to put someone that has shot 3 people out on the street to shoot a forth? Do you think he can even evaluate a situation without either being TOO aggressive or TOO passive at this point? Either way, the guy is ruined in this profession.

The risk is too great for Newark for this guy to be let back out on the streets. That, to everyone, is pretty clear.

And please remember, that I am PRO NPD. I don't think I've ever taken a position AGAINST them in other shootings. There's something about this guy that doesn't sit well. And let's not forget the HISTORICAL signficance of police brutality in Newark. In the 60s, there were a SERIES of police killings of blacks that went unresolved. That led to the riots. The last thing Newark needs, at this point, is an unresponsive police department. The people want to have faith that they will be safe and that the police will continue to fight the bad guys within the letter of the law, the spirit of the Constitution and judicial procedure and due process.

Let Officer Tom take the test to become a firefighter and then let him waste in some firehouse.

[LastCubanStanding]

I agree with John.



BTW: That name sounds real familiar; has Ruane been on the force for a long time?

There are two Ruane brothers that are NPD - Tom & Matthew. Tom is/was in the Auto Theft Task Force so his name is/was in the papers a lot.

[ProSouth]

1. Mayor James needs to mandate that Newark police are courteous and respectful to all as a part of their jobs. Citizens and criminals alike. You can fight crime without the attitude and negativity. The words Sir and Ma'am should be a normal part of all officers vocabulary when interacting with the public, not just their police superiors. This will give the citizens a new sense of respectability from their public servants.

2. Renegotiate the police union contracts to include clauses that make it much easier to fire and discipline officers who are not courteous and respectful to the public.

3. Create a taskforce of undercover "citizens" to get detained /pulled over by the police just to test a police officers interaction with the public. Record the interaction just to have evidence.

4. Revamp Internal Affairs. It is a joke. Citizens complaints about the police are not taken seriously. It usually comes down to your word against the officers and without proof you know who is going to get the benefit of the doubt.

5. Install a video camera with audio and a digital video recorder within all police vehicles, marked and unmarked. Secure the DVR so that the officers cannot get to it or shut it off in anyway. Many of these DVRs have the capability of recording 2 or more months straight. The police officer can also wear a wireless mic that records to the DVR within a fairly long distance from the vehicle. This will assist the public by providing clear evidence of police interactions with the public as well as cut down on police brutality and false accusations of profiling, ect. The unit looks something like this:
http://www.northlandsecurity.com/mobileeye/images/new-1.jpg

6. Mandate frequent and periodic psych evaluations for all police officers. It's no doubt that police work is stressful and mentally draining. The public needing mentally clear and balanced police on the street with guns outweigh the need for cops to draw a salary/pension.

7. Cops with numerous shootings under their belts should be evaluated for a long time before being put back out on the street. Being cleared by a grand jury is not enough.

Having said all of this does not mean that the police should not legally put foot in ass when justified, I just think that keeping all the cops honest would go a heck of a long way in protecting good cops and all the citizens they serve.

[LastCubanStanding]

Know what...I agree with each and everyone of your points.

[5Reasons]

Good suggestions. Do you think the NPD union is going to allow that kind of recording equipment in the vehicles? ;)

Nevertheless, those are great ideas and you're right. This will ENHANCE good cops and the citizens they serve. Good stuff, Pro.

[LastCubanStanding]

And the officers LOVE it. It saves them from bogus claims and allegations. Show the accuser the tape - never makes it to court. Cops, if they really think about it, should embrace it. Good cops, that is. bad cops will have to be more discrete.

[JoefromPGH]

I don't think I've ever disagreed with you on an issue, but there's always a first for everything.

This cop is not getting into these shootings by random chance. There's something that he's doing, that others aren't, that has caused him to use deadly force on 3 different occassions. And again, that means that one of three things are happening.

1. He's using bad tactics. A good officer goes out to get the bad guys and NOT get into any situation that threatens his life.

2. He has an itchy trigger finger.

3. He's just unlucky.

Either way, do you think it is responsible for NPD to put someone that has shot 3 people out on the street to shoot a forth? Do you think he can even evaluate a situation without either being TOO aggressive or TOO passive at this point? Either way, the guy is ruined in this profession.

The risk is too great for Newark for this guy to be let back out on the streets. That, to everyone, is pretty clear.

And please remember, that I am PRO NPD. I don't think I've ever taken a position AGAINST them in other shootings. There's something about this guy that doesn't sit well. And let's not forget the HISTORICAL signficance of police brutality in Newark. In the 60s, there were a SERIES of police killings of blacks that went unresolved. That led to the riots. The last thing Newark needs, at this point, is an unresponsive police department. The people want to have faith that they will be safe and that the police will continue to fight the bad guys within the letter of the law, the spirit of the Constitution and judicial procedure and due process.

Let Officer Tom take the test to become a firefighter and then let him waste in some firehouse.

5...

What I didn't comment on, you basically did and I essentially agree. I think where our opinioins differ is my belief and hope that internal affairs would do an adequate job in assessing the particular incident. I also believe that any officer who is involved in a gun fight should be thouroughly evaluated to make sure that his/her head is still on straight. As to Ruane, yeah, he's got to be a mess by now. A psychiatric evaluation would probably confirm that. But still...if he comes up clean on that, he should be able to remain on the force. If he doesn't come up clean (likely), he may still be able to fulfill his duties in a different role (if willing), such as desk work, traffic, etc. Of course, such suggestions would make the unions more than just blink.

Pro...your suggestions make sense. However, the hardest thing is to get the unions to do anything that may result in firings. But I agree 100% with your points 6 and 7....we gotta make sure our cops can continue to be mentally competant after a shooting. Does IA presently evalute the mental preparadness of a cop who was invoved in a violent incident? I doubt it but who knows, maybe they do.

This is where I take my liberal hat off and become a part-time conservative....I HATE UNIONS! They had their place a long time ago. Now they are generally just bastions of power and wealth to the leaders. Hey, its not bad to be a union member either. Problem is, unions make governments and taxpayers go crazy!

[ProSouth]

Good suggestions. Do you think the NPD union is going to allow that kind of recording equipment in the vehicles? ;)

Honestly, No. The unions won't allow it. They will fight it. Cops don't want to be watched. What cameras and DVRs in the vehicle do is not only show a bad cop doing dirt and not following procedure but also puts his partner in the direct position to be a physical witness against a fellow officer. Cops, good and bad, don't rat out other cops. If a camera catches the cop breaking the law or losing his temper, it places his partner in a vulnerable position as to why he did not stop the criminal act of his fellow officer. In addition, now the witnessing cops report must jive with the video. Cops hate video because it sheds light on everything. The police culture thrives in the unknown. The police want the upper hand in controlling their interaction with the public. Video eliminates that control. Many police with the help of their superiors and the union construct the series of events that take place when arresting a criminal. Cops are excellent at constructing probable cause. Without it there is no bases for most interactions with the public and without it in an arrest is a violation of a person's rights. Video eliminates the ability and priviledge of the police to construct that probable cause after the fact.

Unless Sharpe is ready to ruffle the feathers of the police (which I doubt) we won't see cameras and DVRs in Newark police cars.

[ProSouth]

And the officers LOVE it. It saves them from bogus claims and allegations. Show the accuser the tape - never makes it to court. Cops, if they really think about it, should embrace it. Good cops, that is. bad cops will have to be more discrete.

Immediately following the implimentation of video in State Police vehicles something else happened too.....The number of vehicle stops and arrest by the State Police declined. Wonder why???

[LastCubanStanding]

I know where your headed, and it may be partially true. The NJSP staged a work action where they didn't give tickets (and thus stops) for a couple of months. If you look at the stats it went down dramatically. I don't remember what the incident was that caused it, but it was a "planned work action" (i.e. a strike).

You could drive 150 MPH on I-78 and you did not run the risk of getting stopped.

i remember now:

Troopers outraged over the Governors comments and the firing of
Colonel Williams band together and participate in an unofficial job action
that infuriates the Governor and costs the State over $2 million dollars in
lost ticket revenue for the month of March alone.

[John360]

That this guy may actually go out and LOOK for criminals and that's why he puts himself in these situations.

I was going to say the same thing. It does sound odd to me that he's been involved in so many shootings but maybe the guys a f*cking hero.

[5Reasons]

Joe,

I know someone from internal affairs and some of the stories he tells me are, nearly, unbelievable. Of course, I'm always left asking this question - If this is the stuff he tells me, what other stuff is it that I don't know?

It is critical that we root out bad policing while maintaing the public trust. Once you lose the public trust, things go from bad to worse in a nanosecond. Newarkers currently have some faith in NPD (at least in the sense that there's not an overwhelming belief that they would do harm to the average citizen). Newarkers only have waivering faith that NPD is responsive to their daily plight. If you suddenly mix a negative reaction (that NPD is arbitrary, capricious and VIOLENT) with the fact that NPD is unresponsive to peoples' daily plight, then you suddenly have a very bad brew and potential for broader social violence. Newark has been down that road before and we've seen where it ends up.

Whether well-intentioned, partly psycho superhero or just one really bad tactical officer, this guy can't be allowed back on the street FOR HIS OWN SAFETY and in order to MAINTAIN THE PUBLIC TRUST. I can assure you that the idea that a two-time killer (justifiable or not) and 3 time shooter, would be more headaches than he's worth out there on the beat.

The Ghosts of '67 still haunt Newark. Let's not stir up the spirits any more.

[Doofus1]

If he really did nothing wrong, make him a Sergeant and put him behind a desk.

[5Reasons]

Doofus,

Better still - let him give public lectures on the "services" that NPD provides -- which now include Xpress Homocides for "certain types."

Doofus, you may be on to something. Since you have to be on the border of what's legal and what's not to move up the ranks, perhaps a promotion is in order for Tommy. :) Hey, when he gets to five kills, doesn't he get some sort of gold watch? :eek: I'm not familar with the reward structure.


(Great dialogue on this issue...I'm really enjoying it.)

[ProSouth]

I know where your headed, and it may be partially true. The NJSP staged a work action where they didn't give tickets (and thus stops) for a couple of months. If you look at the stats it went down dramatically.

What you are talking about was a few years ago just prior to the use of cameras. I am telling you that the number of overall minority traffic stops have declined since the State Police started using those cameras in their cars to this day. Let me see if I can find the stats.

[LastCubanStanding]

has the overall total number of stops also declined?

[ProSouth]

But let's remember, Black traffic stops were overwhelmingly larger than traffic stops of whites despite the fact that Blacks were only a small percentage of drivers on the highway.