state of the union

[violet87]

is on channel 5 (live) right now...of course it'll be nothing but false hopes and promises but it should be interesting.

[CaptainJim59]

is on channel 5 (live) right now...of course it'll be nothing but false hopes and promises but it should be interesting.

it will get all of us nothing!

[violet87]

there's a difference btwn being negative and keeping it real.
I'm not being negative...i'm speaking based off of what i've seen. Secondly, b/c of his irrational decisions we are in a deficit and an unnecessary war. Being positive will not undue his decsisons. He still has soldiers going to war:mad: ... Don't talk 2 me about being negative.

[CaptainJim59]

there's a difference btwn being negative and keeping it real.
I'm not being negative...i'm speaking based off of what i've seen. Secondly, b/c of his irrational decisions we are in a deficit and an unnecessary war. Being positive will not undue his decsisons. He still has soldiers going to war:mad: ... Don't talk 2 me about being negative.

The economy is fine despite the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Also this is not an unneccessary war, most of the insurgents in Iraq are Al Queda and if we were to pull out, the area would be worse off and they would have a base to carry out further attacks like 9/11.

[violet87]

i know that the economy is fine...however we wouldn't have to be over there now had bush not invaded iraq in the first place. If you are watching you'll notice that all he is talking about is the war and nuc weapons. Figures!

[CaptainJim59]

i know that the economy is fine...however we wouldn't have to be over there now had bush not invaded iraq in the first place. If you are watching you'll notice that all he is talking about is the war and nuc weapons. Figures!

The most he talked about was everything other than Iraq. The last part of his speech was referenced to Iraq. Think about it, Iraq refusd the U.N. inspectors to inspect their WMD sites, now Iran is doing the same thing.

[CaseClosed]

stated parents have the right to take their children out of failing schools. My question is what happens when entire schools are emptied?:eek:

Bush also stated everyone should have healthcare and they should so why doesn't ever citizen have healthcare? They can't afford healthcare. Duh!

I don't want to see anymore of our troops and the innocent people of Iraq killed and I don't see how sending more troops to Iraq will help.

Bush is determined to continue the War and if he isn't given the resources to continue the war, he will take the revenue from the budget, specifically Social Security if he hasn't done so already.. Heck, he may even empty the Mint.:rolleyes: .

[JoefromPGH]

Our invasion of Iraq created a lot of Islamic militants. For many of these extremists, the invasion and occupation was the last straw- now they are part of an ever-growing killing machine that will do whatever it takes to eradicate their "enemy." In his efforts to fight terrorism, Bush created a monster with his Iraqi adventure. Killing Bin Laden will not end the Jihad. I foresee an all out war in the Mid-East once Israel strikes Iran (which is almost a given). We will need to brace ourselves for the energy crisis that looms.

CaptainJim...How's that for negativeism and I am usually a very optimistic individual. I am also for the sending of more troops to Iraq right now. Its our last chance to try and make the Iraqi government strong enough to survive. Otherwise, an Iranian-like uprising will occur amongst the ****e's, making the Sadaam massacres look like nothing in comparison.

[CaptainJim59]

Our invasion of Iraq created a lot of Islamic militants. For many of these extremists, the invasion and occupation was the last straw- now they are part of an ever-growing killing machine that will do whatever it takes to eradicate their "enemy." In his efforts to fight terrorism, Bush created a monster with his Iraqi adventure. Killing Bin Laden will not end the Jihad. I foresee an all out war in the Mid-East once Israel strikes Iran (which is almost a given). We will need to brace ourselves for the energy crisis that looms.

CaptainJim...How's that for negativeism and I am usually a very optimistic individual. I am also for the sending of more troops to Iraq right now. Its our last chance to try and make the Iraqi government strong enough to survive. Otherwise, an Iranian-like uprising will occur amongst the ****e's, making the Sadaam massacres look like nothing in comparison.

Of course killing Bin Laden will not end the Jihad. So what does that tell you Joe, other than that we are at a war that must continue. Also, there was no monster created, the monster was already present in the middle east. As to the energy crisis, take mass transit like I do!

[LastCubanStanding]

As to the energy crisis, take mass transit like I do!


DUI? :eek: :D

[JoefromPGH]

Of course killing Bin Laden will not end the Jihad. So what does that tell you Joe, other than that we are at a war that must continue. Also, there was no monster created, the monster was already present in the middle east. As to the energy crisis, take mass transit like I do!

It is likely that the "monster" has grown geometrically in the past three years. I don't know for certain whether that would have been the case had we not invaded Iraq but I'm sure our invasion didn't create love for America. Yes, the militants existed and exerted their deadly influence five years ago...they are many many times stronger and more unified now. Wow, have we done wonders in the war on terror by our actions in Iraq!!

BTW, I also take mass transit and here in Pittsburgh they are about to cut 130 of 215 routes because the Port Authority can't fund it. And the President talks about CUTTING fuel consumption. He talks with a crooked mouth and I think most of us are SICK of it!!!

[Make Newark Clean]

Disgusted.

How can he talk about the State of the Union and not once mention this government's responsibilities in the wake of Hurricane Katrina?

And our economy is far from rip-roaring. What's left of our manufacturing base is being moved to a worrisome China by multinational corporations like Walmart. The tech sector, once the antidote to middle-class job flight, is on its way overseas too. What's left for far too many is a life of working overtime but never quite getting ahead.

And then his talk about fiscal responsibility when he started an unnecessary war that we aren't even yet paying for? Wow.

Understand this, last night, the president began to prepare us for war with Iraq.

First, there's the troop "augmentation" itself. Worse than Iraqis spilling their own blood is the risk of dead Americans engaging in dreaded urban warfare. He's risking the loyalty of his own party on this one.

He has increased naval presence in the Straits of Hormuz.

He's calling for expansion of the size of US armed services. (I wonder how he's going to pull that off with an unpopular war going on? Maybe he'll give nonviolent drug offenders a chance to sign up. :eek: )

He's called for doubling the size of our Strategic Petroleum Reserve. The price of oil has fallen a lot lately and his call raised it. Why is he placing himself at a further disadvantage at a time when he's already unpopular?

He's called for, of all things: conservation; and increasing miles per gallon on vehicles and a 20% reduction in dependence on oil! Even though he coupled this with allusions to ANWR drilling, why should he take this great leap forward instead of taking credit for oil's price drop? Why are we being cushioned up (unlike New Orleans) for a crisis?

Israel has promised not to stand by and watch Iran get a nuclear bomb. Last night, President Bush said the same thing. Israel has projected that Iran becomes too dangerous by Summer 2007.

Keep a full tank of gas and a few extra canned goods on hand.

[Doofus1]

It is likely that the "monster" has grown geometrically in the past three years.

Joe, you are right that Iraq was not a radical Islamicist breeding ground under Hussein. He couldn't let that happen as it would have challenged his power. However, you are wrong about the growth being caused by the war.

If you want to look at the growth of radicalism and it taking a direct path at us, look no further than 1993 Somalia. We lost 18 Rangers, and Bill Clinton ran out the door crying like a baby. That emboldened them like no other event. The strongest power in the world got beat by a warlord in Mogadishu.

As for its growth, there are multiple factors that are feeding it. The war in Iraq is less important than the Palestinian conflict and the simple fact that most Islamic countries offer nothing for their people as a future.

[CaseClosed]

said there should be a call to impeach President Bush. She asked why isn't there a congressman not afraid to stand up and say what Bush is doing is wrong?

She said we wanted to impeach a president because he had an affair, yet Bush is responsible for the deaths of 3,000 military personel and no one is saying the president should be impeached.

Last night in his address, Bush said we're fighting a different war than the war we were fighting. I say, he's right. We are fighting a civil war against the way of life of a people who live an Islamic life and are willing to die for their beliefs in the name of Allah.

[Doofus1]

We are fighting a civil war against the way of life of a people who live an Islamic life and are willing to die for their beliefs in the name of Allah.


That's not exactly true either. That's one element, probably the smallest one, but the most virulent. The bigger elements are that the Sunnis are fighting for return of their status as the autocrats in control of Iraq, despite being the minority, while the Shiites fight for self-determination and for revenge against the Sunnis. The Sunnis are getting help from the Saudis while the Iranians are backing the Shiites. We originally backed the Shiites but let the radical Shiites keep their militias. Now we are regretting that move.

[CaseClosed]

That's not exactly true either. That's one element, probably the smallest one, but the most virulent. The bigger elements are that the Sunnis are fighting for return of their status as the autocrats in control of Iraq, despite being the minority, while the Shiites fight for self-determination and for revenge against the Sunnis. The Sunnis are getting help from the Saudis while the Iranians are backing the Shiites. We originally backed the Shiites but let the radical Shiites keep their militias. Now we are regretting that move.

have been fighting for years mainly because of leadership. Both believe in the Koran and way of life. Where they differ is in who their leader should be.

[JoefromPGH]

That's not exactly true either. That's one element, probably the smallest one, but the most virulent. The bigger elements are that the Sunnis are fighting for return of their status as the autocrats in control of Iraq, despite being the minority, while the Shiites fight for self-determination and for revenge against the Sunnis. The Sunnis are getting help from the Saudis while the Iranians are backing the Shiites. We originally backed the Shiites but let the radical Shiites keep their militias. Now we are regretting that move.

This is very true and the potential bloodshed that could happen in Iraq could approach that of the Pol Pot massacres in Cambodia. The Shiites far outnumber the Sunni's. Hence, there is a real case for dividing Iraq into three autonomous divisions. For the U.S. it would also make sense as the Sunnis and Kurds would likely not cave into and become puppets of the Iranians. Wow, this is starting to sound like Europe 1939.

Doofus, I also agree that the Palestinian issue has been a major breeding ground for militancy growth in the Middle-East. Heck, the Palestinians were the first marketers of suicide bombings since the kama kasi's in WWII. Now everyone is doing it.

MNC...Yes, I had the same feeling last night-that Bush is preparing us for something far greater than Iraq. Again, he may be saying one thing "build up the troops to help the Iraqs'" when he really means..."Build up the troops to support Israel after they start the largest Mid-East war since their birth."

[Miss Tam-Tam]

And then his talk about fiscal responsibility when he started an unnecessary war that we aren't even yet paying for? Wow.

All of what Make said. In addition, there's another terrible sidebar to the indifference of the Bush administration to Americans in need: The first responders to the 9/11 disaster who are sick and/or deathly ill. They have been ignored and were initially told, by the Federal government/Christine Todd Whitman, that the air at Ground Zero was "perfectly safe." It's just another link in the chain of the wreck of the Bush administration.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=9_11&id=4965830

[JoefromPGH]

have been fighting for years mainly because of leadership. Both believe in the Koran and way of life. Where they differ is in who their leader should be.

Case,

The Shiites and Sunni's are like cats and dogs. They have been fighting each other for centuries.

[Make Newark Clean]

Understand this, last night, the president began to prepare us for war with Iraq.

I meant IRAN.

[black4rob2]

Personally, i think it was a big joke...Everyone standing and clapping on que...My greatest highlight of the night was when he recognized Dikembe Mutumbo and the NYC Subway hero (my man was soaking it all up...:D :D )

Anyway...I thought that it was one of his better speeches...(although he doesn't have to many good speeches stored away)
I too was upset at the fact he had no focus on Katrina at all...especially after the response he originally had during and after the storm...
I understand that foreign policy is important, but so are your locals.

I'm glad to see that he is trying to correct his mistakes with the War in Iraq...
For the soldiers sake, i agree with sending more troops over....Can you imagine the moral of the troops already on the ground thinking about the lack of support they are getting back home from their government. Can you also imagine the momemtum we would provide the insurgents by pulling out now...
As much as i hate this war...this is something, unfortunately, we are going to have to finish....

[Rough Rider]

http://theheretik.typepad.com/the_heretik/images/bush_bandar.jpg

one of the 'moderate' regimes Osama wants to overthrow is the most extreme example of islamist theocracy in the world - which just happens to be one of the closest allies of the US and very close to the Bush family in particular.

Why spend 300 billion in Iraq when our children can't get access to decent schools or health care?

[John360]

Anyway...I thought that it was one of his better speeches...

I thought it was awful...he gave a listless delivery. Like a schoolboy delivering an oral report on a book he really didn't like.

As far as the economy -- I can't say why anyone would say our economy is doing good. The poor are getting poorer and the rich get even richer and the war is pushing us towards bankruptcy!

[Miss Tam-Tam]

I meant IRAN.

Bush is sending another aircraft carrier to the Persian Gulf. He is escalating an aggressive military presence in the region. Aircraft carriers do not travel alone. They are usually escorted by a number of military craft (battle group) including, but not limited to, a cruisers, destroyers, frigates and even a nuclear submarine. This makes me sick. Bush is itching to stage military action against Iran. How would we like it if another country positioned a battle group right off the coast of New Jersey with enough weaponry to take out Newark and the entire state six times? I doubt anyone would sleep very well. Again, Bush rattles the saber at a country that's no match for our military might.

<<The USS John C. Stennis, along with several accompanying ships, is expected to arrive by late February in the Gulf, where it will join the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower aircraft carrier group. Its presence will mark the first time since the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003 that there have been two American carrier battle groups in the region.>>

http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/eav012407.shtml

http://www.swordsmen.org/aviat-gall/ships1t.jpg
Aircraft Carrier Battle Group

[Make Newark Clean]

January 25, 2007

Op-Ed Columnist

Long on Rhetoric, Short on Sorrow (http://select.nytimes.com/2007/01/25/opinion/25herbert.html)

By BOB HERBERT

President Bush showed what he does well at the beginning of the State of the Union ceremony when he graciously acknowledged and introduced Nancy Pelosi as speaker of the House of Representatives. He seemed both generous and sincere, and it was the right touch for a genuinely historic moment.

At the end of his speech he introduced four Americans of whom the nation can be proud, including Wesley Autrey, a New Yorker who made like a Hollywood stunt man to save the life of a stricken passenger who had fallen onto the tracks in front of an oncoming subway train.

The rest of the evening was a study in governmental dysfunction. The audience kept mindlessly applauding — up and down, like marionettes — when in fact there was nothing to applaud. The state of the union is wretched, which is why the president’s approval ratings are the worst since Nixon and Carter.

If Mr. Bush is bothered by his fall from political grace, it wasn’t showing on Tuesday night. He seemed as relaxed as ever, smiling, signing autographs, glad-handing.

I wanted to hear him talk about the suffering of the soldiers he has put in harm’s way, and the plight of the residents of New Orleans. I wanted to hear him express a little in the way of sorrow for the many thousands who have died unnecessarily on his watch. I wanted to see him slip the surly bonds of narcissism and at least acknowledge the human wreckage that is the sum and substance of his sustained folly.

But this is a president who runs when empathy calls. While others are monitoring the casualty lists, he’s off to the gym. At least Lyndon Johnson had the decency to agonize over the losses he unleashed in Vietnam.

The State of the Union speech was boilerplate at a time when much of the country, with good reason, is boiling mad. The United States, the most powerful nation in the history of the world, seems paralyzed. It can’t extricate itself from the war in Iraq, can’t rebuild the lost city of New Orleans, can’t provide health care for all of its citizens, can’t come up with a sane energy policy in the era of global warming, can’t even develop a thriving public school system.

If it’s true, as President Bush told his audience, that “much is asked of us,” it’s equally true that very little has been delivered.

The Democrats, delighted by the wounded Bush presidency, believe this is their time. Like an ostentation of peacocks, an extraordinary crowd of excited candidates is gathering in hopes of succeeding Mr. Bush.

But such a timid crowd!

Ask a potential Democratic president what he or she would do about the war, and you’ll get a doctoral dissertation about the importance of diplomacy, the possibility of a phased withdrawal (but not too quick), the need for Iraqis to help themselves and figure out a way to divvy up the oil, and so on and so forth.

A straight answer? Surely you jest. The Democrats remind me of the boxer in the Bonnie Raitt lyric who was “afraid to throw a punch that might land.”

There’s a hole in the American system where the leadership used to be. The country that led the miraculous rebuilding effort in the aftermath of World War II can’t even build an adequate system of levees on its own Gulf Coast.

The most effective answer to this leadership vacuum would be a new era of political activism by ordinary citizens. The biggest, most far-reaching changes of the past century — the labor movement, the civil rights movement, the women’s movement — were not primarily the result of elective politics, but rather the hard work of committed citizen-activists fed up with the status quo.

It’s time for thoughtful citizens to turn off their TVs and step into the public arena. Protest. Attend meetings. Circulate petitions. Run for office. I suspect the public right now is way ahead of the politicians when it comes to ideas about creating a more peaceful, more equitable, more intelligent society.

The candidates for the most part are listening to their handlers and gurus and fat-cat contributors, which is the antithesis of democracy. It’s not easy for ordinary men and women to be heard above that self-serving din, but it can be done.

Voters should listen to Dwight Eisenhower, who said in 1954:

“Politics ought to be the part-time profession of every citizen who would protect the rights and privileges of free people and who would preserve what is good and fruitful in our national heritage.”

[Make Newark Clean]

http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/eav012407.shtml

http://www.swordsmen.org/aviat-gall/ships1t.jpg
Aircraft Carrier Battle Group

Excellent article!

I served this country on the USS Constellation (CV-64) as part of one of those carrier battle groups. And, oh man! I've been in the Gulf of Oman, too, near the Straits of Hormuz.

[Miss Tam-Tam]

Excellent article!

I served this country on the USS Constellation (CV-64) as part of one of those carrier battle groups. And, oh man! I've been in the Gulf of Oman, too, near the Straits of Hormuz.

Wow, Make! Impressive. No wonder you're so disciplined. ;) You know I love aircraft carriers, because it must take an awesome amount of organization and discipline to operate a floating military airbase with a city of people inside of it.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/39/USS_Constellation_CV-64.jpg/300px-
USS Constellation arriving in Perth, Western Australia

[Miss Tam-Tam]

Bob Herbert: [There’s a hole in the American system where the leadership used to be. The country that led the miraculous rebuilding effort in the aftermath of World War II can’t even build an adequate system of levees on its own Gulf Coast.

It’s time for thoughtful citizens to turn off their TVs and step into the public arena. Protest. Attend meetings. Circulate petitions. Run for office. I suspect the public right now is way ahead of the politicians when it comes to ideas about creating a more peaceful, more equitable, more intelligent society.
[/COLOR]

Thanks for this Herbert column, Make. You can't read it on line w/o paying, so I appreciate the thought. He makes a good point about the leadership void in this country. A void that allowed the obscenity of the invasion of Iraq to occur. Herbert's correct. We've got to lead the way ourselves and start thinking outside of the boxes dictated to us by our "leaders." I had been a lifelong Democrat but became so disgusted by their kowtowing in Washington and their self-serving agendas on the local level, that I changed my party affiliation to Independent.

[Miss Tam-Tam]

<<World briefing
Bush 'spoiling for a fight' with Iran

Simon Tisdall
Tuesday January 30, 2007
Guardian Unlimited

US officials in Baghdad and Washington are expected to unveil a secret intelligence "dossier" this week detailing evidence of Iran's alleged complicity in attacks on American troops in Iraq. The move, uncomfortably echoing Downing Street's dossier debacle in the run-up to the 2003 Iraq invasion, is one more sign that the Bush administration is building a case for war.>>

Rest of article at link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldbriefing/story/0,,2002232,00.html

[Doofus1]

Who do you think is supporting the Shiite militias? There is already ample proof of Iran's complicity in US servicemen's deaths in Lebanon when they were on a UN peacekeepers mission. And we did nothing. Alas, we will do nothing again.

[Miss Tam-Tam]

In the Ledger, an Associated Press article (dateline Baghdad) reports on the bombings which struck Shi'a worshippers in two cities yesterday; gunmen ambushed a busload of pilgrims in series of attacks that killed at least 58 people during ceremonies marking Ashoura, the holiest day of the Shi'a calendar.

Carried with the article is a picture of the wall in the American military office at the Government Center in Ramadi, in Iraq's Anbar province. On the wall appears a hand-written note:

"America is not at war. The Marine Corps is at war; America is at the mall."

American cannot solve the problems of warring factions in Iraq; or hope to do so by aggressive action against Iran. That is a bottomless pit that has raged on for centuries.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4750320.stm