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black4rob2
10-14-2004, 01:58 PM
Any thoughts about last night's debate in which Affirmative Action was mention for the first time (even though for about 15 seconds).

How does that play into the problems of minority employment across the country and especially cities like Newark?

How will affect it the Newark Arena and how the award jobs to people? Sometimes in discussions about The Lovely City of Newark; it gets forgotten that there also exist a significant White population among us.

Also to keep into consideration, when speaking of Affirmative Action, is the education issue and its affect on the many minorities who attend or have hopes of attending one of the many institutions we have in NJ and in Newark.

JoefromPGH
10-14-2004, 09:43 PM
Rob, I'm glad you brought the debate up.

Here's my two cents:

Bush looked very presidential (LOL). He completely skirted both the Affirmative Action issue (at least four years ago he gave some double talk) and the Rowe v Wade question. We all know Bush is totally against both and he pretty much admited it by saying virtuAlly nothing. Kerry on the other hand impressed me with his openness on Affirmative Action and also made it clear that it wasn't only geared to help minorities but also to help women.

Overall Kerry addressed the issues clearly* and satisfied both the moderate and liberal voters, I'm sure.

* I wish Kerry would be more clear on his "plans." He has more plans than anyone I've ever seen. I guess I need to spend some time on his website because if there are plans, that would be the place where those plans are spelled out.

As to Bush, his plans are simple...HE HAS NO PLANS!

JoefromPGH
10-14-2004, 10:01 PM
Any thoughts about last night's debate in which Affirmative Action was mention for the first time (even though for about 15 seconds).

How does that play into the problems of minority employment across the country and especially cities like Newark?

How will affect it the Newark Arena and how the award jobs to people? Sometimes in discussions about The Lovely City of Newark; it gets forgotten that there also exist a significant White population among us.

Also to keep into consideration, when speaking of Affirmative Action, is the education issue and its affect on the many minorities who attend or have hopes of attending one of the many institutions we have in NJ and in Newark.

Just a couple of more thoughts, directed at your questions.

I think, no, I'm sure, if Kerry is elected there will be, at a minimum, no downside changes to Affirmative Action. Bush has done everything to defeat
the initiative and four more years of Bush and his redneck congress could spell the end of Affirmative Action. Quite clearly, this is a big and important issue, along with the gradual lifting of the minimum wage to over $7/hour.

So as to your thoughts...as long as Kerry is elected and hopefully the Democrats can gain a few seats in the House during the next couple of years, the education and employment of minorities can only improve. As Kerry said "we still need Affirmative Action." That pretty much says it all. Frankly, I believe Kerry will be more receptive to those who are disadvataged than even Clinton was. I still cannot forget how Mr Politician (Clinton) took credit for that horrundous welfare reform bill several years ago. Pity the poor women living in the rural south who have to bus ride 3-4 hours to/from a job paying $5.50 an hour, while their children are home "taking care" of themselves....thank you Bill (and Knute).

MrTim1955
10-15-2004, 03:42 AM
Bush has done everything to defeat
the initiative and four more years of Bush and his redneck congress could spell the end of Affirmative Action.

But the Supreme Court. There will be vacancies during the next 4 years. A couple of the justices are ready to retire now, including the chief justice. This will affect the court for the next generation.

I think the only reason that the the chief justice and O'Connor have not yet retired is that they don't want it to be said that they put a Republican in office just so that they could be insured of being replaced by another conservative. I think they are waiting for a duly elected president so that they can retire with a clear conscience.

jazzyken
10-15-2004, 11:03 AM
What are your views on Kerry bringing up Cheney's daughter. Quite frankly everyone is out of whack for what??? Kerry did not bring the girl into the political race at all until Cheney tried to get the Lesbain votes. Once you open the can...

I believe if we do not get Bush out of office it will be a true "Vote or Die" issue. As a black woman with a family not a billionaire, I have no other alternative but to make sure we get that man out of office.

A co-worker said to me that if Kerry gets in we will be doomed. She really has no clue. Bush has "screwed" us for four years with no vaseline. And it is really starting to burn my as* right now.

ProSouth
10-15-2004, 11:10 AM
You are right Jazzy, Cheney brought his lesbian daughter into the election. She's fair and open game. It definately was not dirty politics like Bush and Co. have been playing. Frankly I don't think Kerry went far enough. I think he should have brought up the obvious difference of opinion/policy between Bush and Cheney on gay issues in America.

jazzyken
10-15-2004, 11:32 AM
Your right about that...
Cheney wants the lesbian votes for his daughter's sake while Bush wants to outlaw "Gay Marriages". Go figure they are running together. If they can not see eye 2 eye on this issue, imagine what they are debating behind closed doors :rolleyes: .

black4rob2
10-15-2004, 11:42 AM
at the same time he still has to play that political game with the undecided voters. By attacking George/Dick on that issue, he may come across as being insensitive and vindictive. He may come out as the guy who is willing to win at all costs, and sympathethics would not take to kindly of that strategy.

To be perfectly honest with you, I believe that he is making the right decision by not attacking, rather he is complimenting Cheney on his daughter. Everyone knows that he is against gay marriages, and I think that pressing the issue with Bush and Co, would only live him open for a blow to an impressive series of debate by his camp.

Since we are on the gay issue; the point that needs to be made is how do we punish those who commit acts of violence or hate towards gays and other minorities. This comes to mind when I reflect on the 15 year old girl who was murdered on Broad and Market a couple of years ago. How do we prevent those types of incidents from repeating. Between the two candidates, i believe Kerry was the only one who mentioned that we have to become more accepting of Gays and Lesbians in our societies and create a more equal playing field similiar to African Americans, similiar to Women, similar to all.

MrTim1955
10-15-2004, 12:01 PM
How do we prevent those types of incidents from repeating. Between the two candidates, i believe Kerry was the only one who mentioned that we have to become more accepting of Gays and Lesbians in our societies and create a more equal playing field similiar to African Americans, similiar to Women, similar to all.

Many African American preachers are against likening the civil rights movement of gays and lesbians to the civil rights movement of African Americans. The similarities are there but people don't want to be associated with the gay civil rights movement. Before the 60s most people didn't want to be associated with the black civil rights movement either.

I think Kerry said the right thing about homosexuality not being a choice. Who would choose to go through life fearing for their very lives? In the larger cities, there is some tolerance for being different but go out into the rural nooks and cranies of this country and if someone found out that you were gay you'd be dead. Too bad you can't ask Matthew Shepard about his coming out experience in Wyoming.

Bush said he didn't know if homosexuality was a choice or not. What the hell is he trying to ammend the constitution for then? If homosexuality is not a choice (and it is not), then discriminating against gays and lesbians is worse than discriminating against Catholics and Baptists. You can chose to be a Catholic or Baptist where you cannot choose to be gay or lesbian.

One other thing about mentioning Mary Cheney - it did highlight the fact that the president and vice-president disagree on whether the constitution should be amended. Cheney says it should be left to the states.

MrTim1955
10-15-2004, 12:17 PM
Maybe Dick and Lynne think that Mary chooses to be a lesbian. That doesn't say much for her upbringing now does it? I mean if all the teachings of Dick and Lynne Cheney lead their daughter to choose to be a lesbian, then how can we trust Dick in the event that he needs to lead the country?

black4rob2
10-15-2004, 12:23 PM
Maybe Dick and Lynne think that Mary chooses to be a lesbian. That doesn't say much for her upbringing now does it? I mean if all the teachings of Dick and Lynne Cheney lead their daughter to choose to be a lesbian, then how can we trust Dick in the event that he needs to lead the country?

I agree with you

black4rob2
10-15-2004, 03:32 PM
at the same time he still has to play that political game with the undecided voters. By attacking George/Dick on that issue, he may come across as being insensitive and vindictive. He may come out as the guy who is willing to win at all costs, and sympathethics would not take to kindly of that strategy.

To be perfectly honest with you, I believe that he is making the right decision by not attacking, rather he is complimenting Cheney on his daughter. Everyone knows that he is against gay marriages, and I think that pressing the issue with Bush and Co, would only live him open for a blow to an impressive series of debate by his camp.

Now you have the Cheney's using their daughter to steal votes away from Kerry/Edwards.

I think the majority of people who saw the debates knew that it was a premeditated decision by Kerry to mention Cheney's daughter, and personally I think that it is ugly that the Cheney's camp would comment on it negatively.

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-18/1097820709135270.xml

ProSouth
10-15-2004, 06:20 PM
I see your point.... :D

JoefromPGH
10-15-2004, 09:34 PM
Funny, I didn't really think much about Kerry's comment about Cheney's daughter. It wasn't like this was front page news. I did think twice about Bush's comment that he was unsure whether homosexuality was a choice.That to me was just a continuation of the backward thinking of the entire Republican party. I really couldn't care less whether gays are allowed to marry or not...its not a prime issue and it shouldn't be made into one. However, since marraige is NOT a religious event (people get married outside of the church all the time), why should government dictate that it HAS to be between only a man and a woman?

MrTim, your comments on the Supreme Court are so on the money. If Bush gets re-elected, we will have rednecks making decisions for all of us at every high level of government AND the judiciary. I don't think ol' Teddy has the energy anymore to continue to put up his fights.

This may well be the most important election in our lifetime!

black4rob2
10-18-2004, 05:40 PM
where the hell does all this money go?


Figures on government spending and debt
10/18/2004, 4:13 p.m. ET
The Associated Press


Figures on government spending and debt. The government's fiscal year runs Oct. 1 through Sept. 30.
Total public debt subject to limit Oct. 15 - $7,383,975,000,000
Statutory debt limit - $7,384,000,000,000
Total public debt outstanding Oct. 15 - $7,429,738,000,000
Operating balance Oct. 15 - $25,911,000,000
Interest fiscal 2004 thru Aug. - $309,035,000,000
Interest same period 2003 - $304,979,000,000
Deficit fiscal 2004 thru Aug. - $436,913,000,000
Total deficit fiscal 2003 - $374,271,000,000
Receipts fiscal 2004 thru Aug. - $1,672,432,000,000
Receipts same period 2003 - $1,590,476,000,000
Outlays fiscal 2004 thru Aug. - $2,109,344,000,000
Outlays same period 2003 - $1,991,017,000,000
Gold assets in Oct. - $11,043,000,000

J. Sharpe James, J.D.
10-18-2004, 06:03 PM
It goes everywhere BUT Newark! :cool: :D :confused:

jazzyken
10-19-2004, 10:43 AM
Agreed

Did anyone see the seniors on line waiting for vaccines in Florida? One lady said, "All of the money is going to Iraq but seniors in Fl. can not get vaccines. And we put him in office."

VOTE NOVEMBER 2nd

ProSouth
10-19-2004, 10:53 AM
They were showing on ABC (Channel 7) yesterday morning the people waiting for flu shots in Thoroghfare, NJ (wherever that is). Old people in wheel chairs waiting in line since 4 am. only to be turned away. Deep.

5Reasons
10-19-2004, 10:59 AM
In the 3rd debate, Bush basically said, "Don't get sick." In fact, that's Bush's whole health care policy.

This man is amazing at the crap that he's been able to pull off and get away with in his four years. Historians will have to seriously consider how we let this rogue get away with so many of his quasi-legal, unethical and just wrong policies, actions, rhetoric, etc.

black4rob2
10-19-2004, 10:59 AM
I thought the flu vaccine were reserved for seniors and sick children... Why are they being sent back now?

Also why are we getting the bulk of our flu vaccine from two places (50/50)?

This just goes to show how vulnerable we are and how much we need other countries just to survive a winter. Imagine what would happen if all these countries decide, you know what...the hell with the United States...We're not giving them anything because of their arrogance and ignorance.

ProSouth
10-19-2004, 11:16 AM
Bloomfield is issuing flu shots based upon a lottery system. Heath care via lottery...Now that's Orwellian for you a**.

BTW: I think most of those seniors were turned away because there wasn't enough of the vaccine for most that showed up.